7/29/2021 Post 3.1
Sir what is your opinion on starting of Engineering branches in regional languages by centre. This may happen from this or next academic year..
My response
We are totally unprepared for this task like Germans and Japanese. They had great text books and journals. We have nothing.
.so We first strengthen English language understanding by students. It is crucial because we don’t have text book and source materials.
Second we need to keep technical terms in English as it is. Don’t translate. It is a must. Third look at sources in YouTube and Khan academy and provide kannada explanations not translations. Get annotations done. This is an easier way of learning in Kannada. Get good English to Kannada translation software and make it available to students.
Make students read read English text books and abstract what they understood. This can be a credited self study for all students. Get a good helpful English teacher who is a communications expert not linguistic or literature expert.
These are minimum requirements. Remember Jobs require English skills. So go hand in hand with both English and kannada.This is a good way to divide the country.
Hope it gives some preparation work.
7/31/2021 Post 3.2
Let us continue the discussions.
Prof SB Kulkarni ,SDMCET, Dharwad expresses his concern:
“Sir, Technical education in english language is appropriate, however understanding the same in regional language sounds good. But assessment may be carried out in english, since it is technical subject so exact translation is bit difficult to evaluate. Who born before 1975, most of them were usually studied in regional language. After 1975-80 most of the students belong to english medium. Hence, in present scenario common language may be preferred.
Mr Srinivasan, PNB has a serious misgiving:
“Good morning sir. First of all are the books not to be rewritten in local languages.
Even though the local language I am familiar with Tamil I find it difficult to follow Tamil news. What is website.
Coffee house when translated it won’t make any sense”
Mr Sanjay Gupta, PNBHFL, is also concerned with this decision.
“I think above all we need some very sound ITIs and diploma engg courses which impart vocational training so that our engineering execution quality improves.
Language is a medium of communication, means to an end.”
Let us look at this and discuss more next.
8/2/2021 Post 3.4
There are some more comments. Let us look at them before looking for dos and don’ts for use of local language as a medium for engineering education if it is mandated and some colleges bite the bullet.
Mr Jayashankar alerts us to dangers in this use of local language.
“Language has to grow by assimilating words from other languages.
For instance in Tamil it is better to write காபி ( coffee) which can be understood well.But some fanatics translate as குழம்பி.If you mention like this குழப்பம் தான் மிஞ்சும்- end up in confusion.English has grown to this extent only by taking words from Latin and Greek.
There are some very apt naming of words from other languages.
Take the word Anakonda to describe a gigantic Python in English..People will be surprised that the origin for this word is from Tamil.This Python was first seen in Srilanka forest and it was capable of winding the body an elephant and kill that.It was called ஆனை கொன்றான் – killer of elephant in Tamil and that was named as Anakkonda in English. This is very reasonable and understandable.
Like that Chilli is a spicy vegetable and when it came to Tamilnadu it was named as மிளகாய். In TN right from Sangam age only pepper ( மிளகு) was used for spicy taste. When chilli was developed it was named in line with the pepper as மிளகாய் since both taste in same way.Such translations are always acceptable. English has taken some Tamil words also as it is. Anicut for dams ( அணைக்கட்டு) and Porombok ( பொரம்போக்கு) to indicate government lands. Bandobust ( பந்தோபஸ்து) for security.
Likewise, wise translations will help meaningful translation of technology in native languages. The principle to be adopted is to take technical words as it is and explanation in native languages like Tamil, Kannada , Telugu etc.
Prevailing usage to be taken as it is.I would like to point out a book published in Tamil for mathematics for our SSLC class.
Normally bisector used to be named as இருசமவெட்டி in Tamil which every body easily understood.The book published by a Tamil fanatic named it as ஓர் ஈர் ஆரி.This was done because சம is Sanskrit origin according to him.
Do translations in line with current usage and understandability and it will be useful and develop studying in local languages. All set and done fact remains that studying in mother tongue makes people to understand clearly and to make innovations.
Prof Mahendra Babu comes with a revolutionary concept but sensible one.
“Only Two languages and common script for Indian Languages:
There is no country like India with its multi-cultural and multilinguistic huge population. On top of this we are a developing country.
WE need a common language to communicate within India and outside India. It should be one and one only.
All can study two languages -Mandatory.
1.Let everybody study English
2. Regional language or mother tongue for appreciation of culture and heritage.
3. Let all languages have same script. say Devanagari lipi.
There will be a lot of opposition for the following reasons:
1.Politics
2. vested interest
3. Emotional attachment
If we think rationally what I say will be acceptable.
IN 30 years, people will forget the old and will be more comfortable with new.
Even one of the oldest languages like Tamil had different or modified script earlier.
Examples: Common script:
Roman scripts to many European languages and Bahasa Malay ..
Chinese language has one script for all languages (they call dialects like Cantonese, Teo Chew , Hokkien.)
Change: example Singapore
Before 1980 there were 4 language medium schools-Tamil, Malay , Chinese and English.
IN 1981 the then PM Lee Kuan yew cabinet decided to change all medium of instruction to English
Opposition to Change: Human nature. Humans do not want to come out of comfort zone.
We are talking of long-term benefits as one country.
Today in Singapore all adults below 35 years can talk 2 languages.
8/4/2021 Post 3.5
Prof Nanjundaswamy , principal, Dr AIT comments on the idea.
Sir, as we are in the third decade of the 21st century with tons of technological advancement across the globe benefiting humanity. This was possible by a globalised communication system. It would be like turning the clock backwards if we do not connect with the world on day to day basis. Teaching/learning technical programs in a local language would restrict the teacher/learners to be local where opportunities are lowest and would be deprived of becoming a global citizen. CNS”
Mr Ramakrishnan, a good hardware specialist and entrepreneur has this to say
Good morning sir. Kerala tried to translate english technical terms to malayalam, but it ended up as a failure. For example, a switch was,”vaidyutha gamanagamana niyanthrini”. People find it difficult.”
We will discuss this further. Glad many are agitated about this move by AICTE.
8/6/2021 Post 3.6
Mr Srinivasan, PNB has commented on the use of local language in engineering education.
“The competitive edge provided by english language teaching, while making people aspirational for global migration, will be hurdle if we get into vernacular teaching.
Even we cannot get into a neighbouring state.
I am reminded of John naisbitt Global Paradox.
Think globally act locally.
With this step of local language, I don’t know whether even thinking should become local.”
Mr P V Joshi comments differently
Sir. “My view , When Indians started learning English , they learnt very fast in less than 100 years. We talk , write mother tongue for centuries.
It’s elite assumption that English knowing people are more intelligent
We need to put more efforts in creating new definitions. Sanskrit has lot of alternatives
My opinion”
Dr C Subramanian feels the need for English as medium
Resp. Sir, “A serious issue seems to be the school in various states encourage local language to teach. So the teachers are tuned to the same frequency and they don’t even take effort to learn good communication skill in English. Reason appears to be for the political gains the state Govts. encourage the promotion of local languages. It becomes difficult to alter this situation easily. It may take time.
In professional education too the same trend is being encouraged though it may become disadvantageous to students at large.
I am a little harsh in expressing my views. Excuse me.”
Let me leave this with a Quote from Obama in a graduation ceremony.
My first piece of advice is this: Don’t just get involved. Fight for your seat at the table. Better yet, fight for a seat at the head of the table,” he added.
“So don’t accept somebody else’s construction of the way things ought to be. It’s up to you to right the wrongs. It’s up to you to point out injustice. It’s up to you to hold the system accountable and sometimes upend it entirely. It’s up to you to stand up and to be heard, to write and to lobby, to march, to organise, to vote. Don’t be content to just sit back and watch,” Obama advised.
So no excuses please. Everyone is responsible.
8/8/2021 Post 3.7
Prof Vinod Vyasulu talks about multilingual Indians:
“I don’t think the language issue is a binary of yes/no. We have the ability to learn many languages. Most educated Indians know three languages, one of which is English. When we go abroad, we have little difficulty in picking the basics of the home languages. Many of the outstanding Kannada writers, like Anantamurthy, were English professors. Let us respect all languages, and learn as many as we can. We can express ourselves in the one we choose.”
Let me analyse these suggestions.
My responses are
This is an important topic with far reaching implications. Glad many participated in the discussions. Most are against this approach. That is clear.
Wrong notions and beliefs will destroy our progress.
Let us consider this as a problem and establish steps to solve it.
Let us pose questions.
What is the problem? Medium of teaching and instruction and education.
What is the objective of education? Cognition, thinking, curiosity, innovation, employment, ethics, citizenship preferebly global but definitely local, social aspects, health.
What are the options ? Local language , English , a mix.
Is language only aspect for learning? Do we go for a mix ? Do we have other methods of learning? Graphic , symbolic, logical, experimental,
Do we have a one size fits all?
Do we have inclusion or exclusion ? Will we have two levels of education- one good with global reach ,another a frog in the well person.
What are the feasibilities and difficulties ? Books and other Resources, faculty competence and comfort, access to resources, global understanding and acceptability. Discussions with others. Ease of innovation.
What are biases ? Language, emotions, pride,. Can we avoid them? Can we factor them in feasibility.?
Factors to be considered – understanding, employability, innovation, continuous learning, access to global resources, global reach etc
What is the best feasible option?
Implementation scenes, curriculum, etc
We need to consider the real feasible situations and decide what is good for all .
Let us continue further.
8/10/2021 Post 3.8
Let us start with the question why the medium of instruction is important?
First, after seventy plus years of independence and having a large number of institutions, we have not made education inclusive. Most rural children are left out of higher education not only engineering and medicine . Still, even now, we have about 90 % dropouts by fifth standard. Is it not a shame. School fees is not a major aspect for government high schools. Education was not found meaningful and relevant to most students and parents. It is not even natural. This is the disastrous situation. Remedy means alternate learning systems of courses useful to them. Integrate skills in the curriculum . Give it it’s due – not inferior to history . Localise education and contents. Allow students to learn at their pace and move to SSLC. This problem needs a great attention. We need targets to reduce dropouts.
There is a very large gap between metro students and rural students and students in English medium and local language medium. Inferiority gets built in rural students.
The second problem is cognition. Do the students understand what they learn. My interactions with students in many engineering colleges tells us the story. They don’t understand English speeches of teachers easily if they came from small towns or villages. They say many faculty don’t know enough English to speak and explain. So understanding is poor. No one bothered about this and find easy remedies. This also affects applications, group work and innovation. We need to see later about improving innovation.
People jump to the other extreme saying teach in local language. It has its own problems.
First understand the system. The move from high school to college and from local language to English is a major transformation and a great shock. We need a bridge course after tenth. It is a crying need to make transition smoother. It can be six months to a year. Why we didn’t do this.
Today there is another shock happening – online classes. Most teachers don’t know how to adjust to this. Most students don’t have a good device or internet. We are leaving most students behind. Is this inclusion?
But many small changes based solutions are possible. Let us look at some.
A quick solution – why not teach English language understanding courses – reading technical books ,writing abstracts as well as speak and discuss at least once a week. We at FAER have an internship for rural high school students in Karnataka. We got selected rural students to about 12 engineering colleges for 21 days as interns. When they come in, their English knowledge is weak. They talked in Kannada and are shy . But we made them talk and write , discuss and also conduct the programs. By the third week, they are confident . Their curiosity is aroused. They network well and speak in English very well. So it is possible to improve English understanding. Move away from Grammar and literature and focus on practice. Couple of months of practice will prepare them for learning subjects in English . You will see remarkable changes .
A second solution is To teach in a mixed mode – use both English and local language to teach in the class initially and move to total English medium after several months in the first year. Also make the class activity and discussions based. Ask them to write every day a small note on what they learnt . Don’t read from a book in a class or don’t project ppts. Have group discussions. You will see improvements. Go for visual learning. Use YouTube , Khan academy , . Train them on digital usage.
Universities should move away from exam centres and focus on education . Don’t assume quality of education is maintained by failing a large number of students. It is no indication of quality.
Let us continue further.
8/12/2021Post 3.10
I feel that the medium of instruction alone is not responsible for poor understanding.
Poor teaching- no explanations, no graphics, no videos ,poor evaluation- and static curriculum and methods of education – we are not using blended learning, flipped class, problem based learning, activities and discussions orientation- are also majorly responsible for poor understanding, no application, no innovation, . Are we taking any measures to correct these?
Let me take one example of success. It is IT. How did we become leaders in programming and software maintenance. As one in the ring side seat for 50 years, I can analyse this.
Remember that Germany, France, Japan and Russia are nowhere near pole position in software. So local language instruction failed in creating expertise in software.
It is clear there are many languages, not just the natural language alone. For example mathematics is built up with symbols and operations. It is agnostic of English. By using local language symbols we are destroying the advantage Indians had and have on mathematics. The Arabic numerals are ours. Don’t throw them. Everybody can learn and use them. The strong base in mathematics made us think algorithmically. That made us go for programming easily. We easily adapted to writing codes and designing algorithms.if we wrote C in Kannada where will we be? Definitely nowhere near the top. We would have missed the opportunities and been a very backward country. The world had poor respect for Indians. They thought we are poor, lazy and incompetent. The world recognized the fact that Indians are great in technology only after we controlled most of their IT operations. TCS took us to international operations first. World believes us today in IT because we did not localise programming languages. IT did not stay with the elite or with a few communities. Really Andhra showed the way to create a mass base of IT persons with reasonable competence.
Thousands of training institutions sprung up in small, medium and big cities across the country and played a part in training lakhs of people on programming. Think how we got the expertise in COBOL with thousands engaged in writing business applications and we had good payroll, inventory, accounting,Sales and purchase applications running in hundreds of companies in India in 1970s itself. Many industry engineers used to visit TIFR to program and solve their problems. HAL was developing many applications in 1965 itself . I have seen many programs running in HAL, as I was using their Eliot 803 computer for solving my problems. The language was one step above machine language. The programmers learnt and coded – no classes or training for them. Without training and understanding of computer concepts ,they are dumped straight into the water to learn and use the small computer with 4K memory .
I have seen the struggle by many to write programs, debug and make them work in the slow speed computers available at that time also with low capacity of memory. Magnetic tapes were used and not disks. Government was very kind and did not permit companies to import computers. Such a myopic anti development policy because of George Fernandes throwing out IBM in 1977. We stagnated for more then twenty years with outdated computers . After many training institutions taught autocoder and Fortran and later COBOL programming for more than a decade, engineering colleges got into the picture to take up computer science curriculum only by mid 1980s but they generated a big momentum and provided millions of programmers to run IT services in the world in an agile manner. These are to be appreciated and all players to be saluted. But we marginalized them and talked about capitation fees .
All these achievements have nothing to do with the medium of instruction. Do we go ahead and destroy these learnings?
Many, including many linguists, think language is mostly vocabulary. Let us see this fight – a real frightening situation – in the next post.
8/14/2021 Post 3.11
First we need to understand every subject has its own version of English. For example Mathematics has symbols ,operations and conventions of its own which vary with each group like tensors have summation convention. It uses Greek symbols also. Logic has its own notations. These improve clarity and understanding. Sciences have thousands of technical terms and many are being invented everyday. These have specific meanings . For example force.work done. power and energy are different . We don’t have equivalent terms in our languages. Similarly counters,calculators and computers are different. We use ganaka Yantra in Kannada or kanini in tamil. The term can be applied to all three. How do we handle units like amperes, volts, watts, hp, btu, calories , Newton etc. The coining of words are dangerous. We stay in our state and our milieu.where is research going to be?
I recall my experience in getting Kannada text books for computers for 8th,9th and 10th standards written under the thousand high schools computer program called Mahithi Sindhu. The translations were awful. Storage unit is ugrama, and simple terms were not available for cpu, keyboard etc. So we took a decision to stick to English terms for most terms. There was an uproar and I stood firm. We can avoid linguistic dominance on science , mathematics and computers in Karnataka. But definitely not in many other states. We don’t have enough influence over language enthusiasts. This will sound death to science.
Let us look at other dangers if we go for a local language as a medium.
- 1.students cannot move from one state to another.
- 2.students lose competence in English.
- 3. Students won’t be able to pick up the latest developments in their area. Fast changes are taking place now a days. These people will be left out.
- 4. Their understanding of English language and English text books will come down.
- 5. We don’t have textbooks in local languages.
- 6.we are cut off globally.
So find solutions for teaching and curriculum . Strengthen English understanding. Explain in local language where needed. But use English books, web sites, graphics, and videos which are globally available. Encourage questions. Conduct discussions. Let students discuss and explain concepts. Collaboration is good.
To conclude this change to local language as medium for engineering education should not be done.
That is my conclusion.
This ends our discussion. Any other topics? Till then have a safe thinking life.